Ever since my tried-and-true indie bike-specific short manufacturer closed down (RIP RYB) I've been dreading finding a replacement. I bought these because they're black, look good, have enough length to ride comfortably in, and more-or-less fit. After a season of riding, here are my thoughts: 1) Are my thighs and butt really that big? I didn't think so, but while these fit well at the waist in a 6, they are in now way loose fitting in the thigh as pictured on the model. To say nothing of the (verging on painful) tightness at the groin/seam area caused by the size of my bum? I'm pretty sure I'm a regular sized enough human and have more-or-less typical proportions for an avid cyclist. Sizing up requires me to wear a belt or sag, but is totally required for crotch comfort. 2) Great length. They cover enough of my thighs so that my saddle doesn't chafe and I have some skin protection on the mtb, but short enough that they don't say "goofy dad shorts". 3) The way the seam rubs is so so so painful, especially on extended rides. Mitigated by the use of a chamois, but I'm sick of having to size up and wear a chamois even for my short commute or a few hours romping around the city. For the love of dog, please make seamless (gusseted) shorts. 4) The zipper doesn't stay up very well. All in all these are a reasonably good option in a sea of terrible, terrible options and I'd probably buy another pair - just a size up.